Pepper and Salt! (Condiments of the season) :-)

Gareth's Downstairs Computer

Post by Gareth's Downstairs Computer
A very merry and satisfying Christmas and a happy new year
to all my readership.
And, on the basis that I'm finally getting around to
learning Cymraeg (Welsh), ...
... Nadolig LLawen!

How do you say "Not guilty" in Welsh, G? You might want to practice that
one, just in case.

--
STC / M0TEY /
http://twitter.com/ukradioamateur

Brian Reay

2017-12-21 20:55:48 UTC

Post by Stephen Thomas Cole
Gareth's Downstairs Computer

How do you say "Not guilty" in Welsh, G? You might want to practice that
one, just in case.

That could be useful for others who find themselves in Welsh courts.
They may try to avoid cases in Wales but sometimes they won't have a
choice.

;-)

--
Suspect someone is claiming a benefit under false pretences? Incapacity
Benefit or Personal Independence Payment when they don't need it? They
are depriving those in real need!

https://www.gov.uk/report-benefit-fraud

Richard Stearn

2017-12-21 21:24:41 UTC

Post by Stephen Thomas Cole
Gareth's Downstairs Computer

How do you say "Not guilty" in Welsh, G? You might want to practice that
one, just in case.

yn ddieuog

Charles Richmond

2017-12-22 08:37:21 UTC

Post by Stephen Thomas Cole
Gareth's Downstairs Computer

How do you say "Not guilty" in Welsh, G? You might want to practice that
one, just in case.

yn ddieuog

You'll need to do better than that... I don't have my Enigma machine
handy!!! ;-)

--
numerist at aquaporin4 dot com

m***@mail.com

2017-12-22 08:58:39 UTC

Post by Stephen Thomas Cole
Gareth's Downstairs Computer

How do you say "Not guilty" in Welsh, G? You might want to practice that
one, just in case.

yn ddieuog

You'll need to do better than that... I don't have my Enigma machine
handy!!! ;-)

A few years ago, I stoppped for a couple of days at a farmhouse near
Carmarten(sp) . Nice people, most Welsh people are. I asked the
housewife how she did in Welsh.

"I miss some nuances, of course, I am from North Wales, only been
living here for fifty years."

--
greymaus.ireland.ie
Just_Another_Grumpy_Old_Man

Brian Reay

2017-12-22 09:25:11 UTC

Post by m***@mail.com

Post by Stephen Thomas Cole
Gareth's Downstairs Computer

How do you say "Not guilty" in Welsh, G? You might want to practice that
one, just in case.

yn ddieuog

You'll need to do better than that... I don't have my Enigma machine
handy!!! ;-)

A few years ago, I stoppped for a couple of days at a farmhouse near
Carmarten(sp) . Nice people, most Welsh people are. I asked the
housewife how she did in Welsh.
"I miss some nuances, of course, I am from North Wales, only been
living here for fifty years."

Even in with accents and dialects, not even entirely different
languages, you can move short distances and hear differences- if not
pick up on there significance. Perhaps less so now people tend to
travel more, of course TV, radio all play a part.

As a child, I had relatives who lived within 6 or 7 miles of us and
their dialect was quite different. Relatives of a similar age who lived
closer didn't show the same differences. At times it really was a bit of
an issue.

Gene Wirchenko

2017-12-22 20:24:21 UTC

On Fri, 22 Dec 2017 09:25:11 +0000, Brian Reay <***@m.com> wrote:

[snip]

Post by Brian Reay
As a child, I had relatives who lived within 6 or 7 miles of us and
their dialect was quite different. Relatives of a similar age who lived
closer didn't show the same differences. At times it really was a bit of
an issue.

I had a high school teacher who said that her Italian husband's
home village had a similar thing: the dialect of the people across the
river was quite different.

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko

Charles Richmond

2017-12-22 21:39:08 UTC

Post by Gene Wirchenko
[snip]

I had a high school teacher who said that her Italian husband's
home village had a similar thing: the dialect of the people across the
river was quite different.

Back in the bad old days, two houses on different sides of the same
freeway... a phone call from one house to the other... was a
long-distant toll call !!! That is sort of analogous to speaking
dialects !!! :-)

--
numerist at aquaporin4 dot com

Charlie Gibbs

2017-12-23 00:39:32 UTC

Post by Gene Wirchenko
[snip]

I had a high school teacher who said that her Italian husband's
home village had a similar thing: the dialect of the people across the
river was quite different.

I heard about a hotel in California that straddled area code
boundaries - it was long distance to call from one end of the
building to the other.

The town of Lloydminster sits right on the Alberta/Saskatchewan
border. There's some interesting billing there.

--
/~\ ***@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs)
\ / I'm really at ac.dekanfrus if you read it the right way.
X Top-posted messages will probably be ignored. See RFC1855.
/ \ HTML will DEFINITELY be ignored. Join the ASCII ribbon campaign!

David Billington

2017-12-23 00:59:49 UTC

Post by Gene Wirchenko
[snip]

I had a high school teacher who said that her Italian husband's
home village had a similar thing: the dialect of the people across the
river was quite different.

I heard about a hotel in California that straddled area code
boundaries - it was long distance to call from one end of the
building to the other.
The town of Lloydminster sits right on the Alberta/Saskatchewan
border. There's some interesting billing there.

I know someone that could walk from one side of their house to the other
and their mobile coverage would go from Vodafone Holland to Vodafone
Belgium.

Peter Flass

2017-12-23 14:47:48 UTC

Post by David Billington

Post by Gene Wirchenko
[snip]

I had a high school teacher who said that her Italian husband's
home village had a similar thing: the dialect of the people across the
river was quite different.

I heard about a hotel in California that straddled area code
boundaries - it was long distance to call from one end of the
building to the other.
The town of Lloydminster sits right on the Alberta/Saskatchewan
border. There's some interesting billing there.

I know someone that could walk from one side of their house to the other
and their mobile coverage would go from Vodafone Holland to Vodafone
Belgium.

There's a town on Vermont/Quebec where the library sits on the border and
has has an entrance in each country.

--
Pete

Jerry Stuckle

2017-12-23 01:18:27 UTC

Post by Gene Wirchenko
[snip]

I had a high school teacher who said that her Italian husband's
home village had a similar thing: the dialect of the people across the
river was quite different.

I heard about a hotel in California that straddled area code
boundaries - it was long distance to call from one end of the
building to the other.

I haven't heard that, but it's almost assuredly an urban legend. The
phone company is not going to create two separate accounts and run lines
from two different offices to the same building.

Post by Charlie Gibbs
The town of Lloydminster sits right on the Alberta/Saskatchewan
border. There's some interesting billing there.

Is there? Phone companies don't always follow political boundaries
(neither does the U.S. Postal Service).

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry, AI0K
***@attglobal.net
==================

rickman

2017-12-23 02:33:00 UTC

Post by Gene Wirchenko
[snip]

I had a high school teacher who said that her Italian husband's
home village had a similar thing: the dialect of the people across the
river was quite different.

I heard about a hotel in California that straddled area code
boundaries - it was long distance to call from one end of the
building to the other.

I haven't heard that, but it's almost assuredly an urban legend. The phone
company is not going to create two separate accounts and run lines from two
different offices to the same building.

Post by Charlie Gibbs
The town of Lloydminster sits right on the Alberta/Saskatchewan
border. There's some interesting billing there.

Is there? Phone companies don't always follow political boundaries (neither
does the U.S. Postal Service).

I met a kid in college who had a hard time at the state university. He
lived in the state, but the post office gave them a delivery address from a
post office in a different state. I think it was finally resolved, but they
had to bring the deed and other documents. I would think a state drivers
license with his mailing address would be enough proof of the state he lived
in. The DMV isn't going to give you a license if you are out of state.

--
Rick C

Viewed the eclipse at Wintercrest Farms,
on the centerline of totality since 1998

Jerry Stuckle

2017-12-23 03:24:04 UTC

Post by Gene Wirchenko
[snip]

Post by Brian Reay
As a child, I had relatives who lived within 6 or 7 miles of us and
their dialect was quite different. Relatives of a similar age who
lived
closer didn't show the same differences. At times it really was a bit of
an issue.

I had a high school teacher who said that her Italian husband's
home village had a similar thing: the dialect of the people across the
river was quite different.

I heard about a hotel in California that straddled area code
boundaries - it was long distance to call from one end of the
building to the other.

I haven't heard that, but it's almost assuredly an urban legend. The
phone
company is not going to create two separate accounts and run lines from two
different offices to the same building.

Post by Charlie Gibbs
The town of Lloydminster sits right on the Alberta/Saskatchewan
border. There's some interesting billing there.

Is there? Phone companies don't always follow political boundaries
(neither
does the U.S. Postal Service).

I met a kid in college who had a hard time at the state university. He
lived in the state, but the post office gave them a delivery address
from a post office in a different state. I think it was finally
resolved, but they had to bring the deed and other documents. I would
think a state drivers license with his mailing address would be enough
proof of the state he lived in. The DMV isn't going to give you a
license if you are out of state.

Yes, I can definitely believe that. Even here my mailing address is a
city "which" doesn't exist (most of the county, including my "city", is
unincorporated). And many people around here have mailing addresses in
an incorporated city while living in an unincorporated part of the
county, or vice versa.

What we don't have is people in Maryland with Virginia addresses or vice
versa, but that's to be understood. There's a river separating the two
:) (same with DC and Virginia). But I don't know of anyone in DC with
Maryland mailing addresses or vice versa. I wouldn't doubt it happens,
though.

But if his mailing address is in another state, how did he get the
driver's license? What did he have to do to prove his residency?

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry, AI0K
***@attglobal.net
==================

rickman

2017-12-23 03:49:32 UTC

Post by Gene Wirchenko
[snip]

I had a high school teacher who said that her Italian husband's
home village had a similar thing: the dialect of the people across the
river was quite different.

I heard about a hotel in California that straddled area code
boundaries - it was long distance to call from one end of the
building to the other.

I haven't heard that, but it's almost assuredly an urban legend. The phone
company is not going to create two separate accounts and run lines from two
different offices to the same building.

Post by Charlie Gibbs
The town of Lloydminster sits right on the Alberta/Saskatchewan
border. There's some interesting billing there.

Is there? Phone companies don't always follow political boundaries (neither
does the U.S. Postal Service).

I met a kid in college who had a hard time at the state university. He
lived in the state, but the post office gave them a delivery address from
a post office in a different state. I think it was finally resolved, but
they had to bring the deed and other documents. I would think a state
drivers license with his mailing address would be enough proof of the
state he lived in. The DMV isn't going to give you a license if you are
out of state.

Yes, I can definitely believe that. Even here my mailing address is a city
"which" doesn't exist (most of the county, including my "city", is
unincorporated). And many people around here have mailing addresses in an
incorporated city while living in an unincorporated part of the county, or
vice versa.
What we don't have is people in Maryland with Virginia addresses or vice
versa, but that's to be understood. There's a river separating the two :)
(same with DC and Virginia). But I don't know of anyone in DC with Maryland
mailing addresses or vice versa. I wouldn't doubt it happens, though.
But if his mailing address is in another state, how did he get the driver's
license? What did he have to do to prove his residency?

It was MD and Delaware. I don't know how he got the license. Likely they
knew he was in MD because the state knows exactly who needs to pay taxes
ect. The University wasn't tapped into any of that so they had their own
rules!

You'll have to ask the kid, this was over 40 years ago when I was an
undergraduate and U of Md was a very big and bizarre place for me.

--
Rick C

Viewed the eclipse at Wintercrest Farms,
on the centerline of totality since 1998

Charles Richmond

2017-12-23 03:26:48 UTC

Post by Gene Wirchenko
[snip]

Post by Brian Reay
As a child, I had relatives who lived within 6 or 7 miles of us and
their dialect was quite different. Relatives of a similar age who
lived
closer didn't show the same differences. At times it really was a bit of
an issue.

I had a high school teacher who said that her Italian husband's
home village had a similar thing: the dialect of the people across the
river was quite different.

I heard about a hotel in California that straddled area code
boundaries - it was long distance to call from one end of the
building to the other.

I haven't heard that, but it's almost assuredly an urban legend. The
phone
company is not going to create two separate accounts and run lines from two
different offices to the same building.

Post by Charlie Gibbs
The town of Lloydminster sits right on the Alberta/Saskatchewan
border. There's some interesting billing there.

Is there? Phone companies don't always follow political boundaries
(neither
does the U.S. Postal Service).

I met a kid in college who had a hard time at the state university. He
lived in the state, but the post office gave them a delivery address
from a post office in a different state. I think it was finally
resolved, but they had to bring the deed and other documents. I would
think a state drivers license with his mailing address would be enough
proof of the state he lived in. The DMV isn't going to give you a
license if you are out of state.

There is a house built right on what is now the current Vermont/Quebec
border. You can buy it, live there, and stay out of jail... *iff* you
have dual citizenship:

https://tinyurl.com/y78zye3k

--
numerist at aquaporin4 dot com

rickman

2017-12-23 03:56:26 UTC

Post by Gene Wirchenko
[snip]

I had a high school teacher who said that her Italian husband's
home village had a similar thing: the dialect of the people across the
river was quite different.

I heard about a hotel in California that straddled area code
boundaries - it was long distance to call from one end of the
building to the other.

I haven't heard that, but it's almost assuredly an urban legend. The phone
company is not going to create two separate accounts and run lines from two
different offices to the same building.

Post by Charlie Gibbs
The town of Lloydminster sits right on the Alberta/Saskatchewan
border. There's some interesting billing there.

Is there? Phone companies don't always follow political boundaries (neither
does the U.S. Postal Service).

I met a kid in college who had a hard time at the state university. He
lived in the state, but the post office gave them a delivery address from
a post office in a different state. I think it was finally resolved, but
they had to bring the deed and other documents. I would think a state
drivers license with his mailing address would be enough proof of the
state he lived in. The DMV isn't going to give you a license if you are
out of state.

There is a house built right on what is now the current Vermont/Quebec
border. You can buy it, live there, and stay out of jail... *iff* you have
https://tinyurl.com/y78zye3k

I heard about a guy who had property on the VA/WV boarder. The exact line
between the states had never been defined exactly until the 60's I believe.
When the drew the line by his house it put the house in WV! WV demanded he
pay back taxes for all the years he owned it! Worse, VA said they wouldn't
refund any taxes because their law says once the tax has been paid for some
amount of time, you can't dispute it!!!

I seem to recall he got politicians involved and they got a reasonable
settlement worked out. Talk about getting screwed!

Of course, this may all be urban legend. I heard this many years ago.

--
Rick C

Viewed the eclipse at Wintercrest Farms,
on the centerline of totality since 1998

Gene Wirchenko

2017-12-23 13:08:37 UTC

On Fri, 22 Dec 2017 15:39:08 -0600, Charles Richmond
<***@aquaporin4.com> wrote:

[snip]

Post by Charles Richmond
Back in the bad old days, two houses on different sides of the same
freeway... a phone call from one house to the other... was a
long-distant toll call !!! That is sort of analogous to speaking
dialects !!! :-)

I always thought that that nonsense could have been solved by
using a better zone system. A call to the same zone or only one zone
away would be local; the others would be long distance. Set the zones
to allow for cities and geography.

Would this have been workable?

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko

Brian Reay

2017-12-23 14:41:52 UTC

Post by Gene Wirchenko
On Fri, 22 Dec 2017 15:39:08 -0600, Charles Richmond
[snip]

I always thought that that nonsense could have been solved by
using a better zone system. A call to the same zone or only one zone
away would be local; the others would be long distance. Set the zones
to allow for cities and geography.
Would this have been workable?
Sincerely,
Gene Wirchenko

I don't often use 'snail mail' in Europe (we are still in Europe) but,
as I recall, for some time it has been possible to send a letter within
the EU for the same cost as a local one. As I recall, when this was
introduced, the rationale was that the bulk of the infra structure was
in place in each country and if, for example, I paid more to post to
Germany (I'm in the UK) the UK didn't 'hand over' any of the extra I
paid to any Post Office 'on route'- in the end it all just 'balanced out'.

Logically, the same must apply for telephone calls. Obviously a 'long
distance call' uses resources but, in the round, things balance out.
There will be exceptions- areas which have low numbers of travellers
etc. but, for most cases, surely the logic applies.

A mobile call in the UK costs the same if the two 'ends' are 50m apart
or 300miles. Why not the same for landline calls?

Peter Flass

2017-12-23 14:47:48 UTC

Post by Gene Wirchenko
On Fri, 22 Dec 2017 15:39:08 -0600, Charles Richmond
[snip]

Do many people still pay long-distance charges? For many years we've had
plans with "free" nationwide calling. For a while when kids were in school
out of state we had a WATS line so they could fall us free. I cancelled it
later because I was getting too many calls from Puerto Rico where the
callers couldn' speak English.

--
Pete

Brian Reay

2017-12-23 15:11:50 UTC

Post by Peter Flass

Post by Gene Wirchenko
On Fri, 22 Dec 2017 15:39:08 -0600, Charles Richmond
[snip]

In the UK there are various deals which include calls on landlines and
mobiles but there are local and long distance changes if you don't make
use of them, at least on landlines. The deals don't (generally) cover
international calls. 'Roaming' is now included on mobiles, at least in
the EU, although many companies off packages which include other
countries. The exact rules etc vary from company to company.

rickman

2017-12-23 19:06:57 UTC

Post by Gene Wirchenko
On Fri, 22 Dec 2017 15:39:08 -0600, Charles Richmond
[snip]

The phone company has no incentive to make this work better for users.
Their profits are regulated and they have no competition. I have a place in
a very rural area and when I first bought it computers used dial up. I got
very lucky and there was a local exchange that was not quite as local as the
others so I could reach a provider. Otherwise it would have been a non-long
distance toll call. For many others on the other side of the lake it was a
toll call. It's still that way some 30 years later. TPC has no incentive
to increase the non-toll region even though it costs them nothing in
equipment which was upgraded decades ago. They just have to change their
billing.

--
Rick C

Viewed the eclipse at Wintercrest Farms,
on the centerline of totality since 1998

Ralph Mowery

2017-12-23 20:06:37 UTC

Post by Gene Wirchenko
On Fri, 22 Dec 2017 15:39:08 -0600, Charles Richmond
[snip]

The phone company better get some incentive. They are probably loosing
lots due to the cell phones and now to the internet phones. Neither of
them seem to charge extra for what is usually a long distance call.
The phone bill was about $ 20 but taxes and LD connect and other fees
made it around $ 40 per month. If you add caller ID and a few other
things , it will cost even more. Most of that is 'free' with the $ 30
internet phone I am now using.

rickman

2017-12-23 20:37:38 UTC

Post by Gene Wirchenko
On Fri, 22 Dec 2017 15:39:08 -0600, Charles Richmond
[snip]

You seem to fail to understand how "the phone company" operates. They have
capital investment. A regulatory board allows them a certain profit based
on that capital investment. If they make too little profit they can request
rate changes of the regulatory board. TPC doesn't lose money.

--
Rick C

Viewed the eclipse at Wintercrest Farms,
on the centerline of totality since 1998

Ralph Mowery

2017-12-24 03:41:36 UTC

Post by Ralph Mowery
The phone company better get some incentive. They are probably loosing
lots due to the cell phones and now to the internet phones. Neither of
them seem to charge extra for what is usually a long distance call.
The phone bill was about $ 20 but taxes and LD connect and other fees
made it around $ 40 per month. If you add caller ID and a few other
things , it will cost even more. Most of that is 'free' with the $ 30
internet phone I am now using.

I think I understand how they work. It is they better change the way
they work while there are still some that will use the land lines. If
people can get good service via the internet phone or just the cell
phones, why would they even want a land line at a price much higher than
the internet phone ?

The phone companies have been around for many years and have a mind set.
If they do not change it, they will be out of business. Some are trying
to get into the internet business. In a town near me the town put in
fiber optic cable trying to make money. The local cable company boosted
the rates of down load speed to keep the people on them. Not too long
ago the lowest speed was 25, then went to 100, and is now at 200. I am
getting about 230 on most speed tests now. Not that that much speed is
needed in many cases, but it sure beats the DSL from the phone companies
also.

Jerry Stuckle

2017-12-24 03:51:25 UTC

I think I understand how they work. It is they better change the way
they work while there are still some that will use the land lines. If
people can get good service via the internet phone or just the cell
phones, why would they even want a land line at a price much higher than
the internet phone ?
The phone companies have been around for many years and have a mind set.
If they do not change it, they will be out of business. Some are trying
to get into the internet business. In a town near me the town put in
fiber optic cable trying to make money. The local cable company boosted
the rates of down load speed to keep the people on them. Not too long
ago the lowest speed was 25, then went to 100, and is now at 200. I am
getting about 230 on most speed tests now. Not that that much speed is
needed in many cases, but it sure beats the DSL from the phone companies
also.

That has happened to so many companies - Tweeter, Circuit City, Radio
Shack... it almost happened to Best Buy and could still happen to old
chains like J.C. Pennys, Sears and K-Mart.

Companies which don't keep up with the rest of the world fail eventually.

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry, AI0K
***@attglobal.net
==================

rickman

2017-12-24 04:18:50 UTC

I think I understand how they work. It is they better change the way
they work while there are still some that will use the land lines. If
people can get good service via the internet phone or just the cell
phones, why would they even want a land line at a price much higher than
the internet phone ?
The phone companies have been around for many years and have a mind set.
If they do not change it, they will be out of business. Some are trying
to get into the internet business. In a town near me the town put in
fiber optic cable trying to make money. The local cable company boosted
the rates of down load speed to keep the people on them. Not too long
ago the lowest speed was 25, then went to 100, and is now at 200. I am
getting about 230 on most speed tests now. Not that that much speed is
needed in many cases, but it sure beats the DSL from the phone companies
also.

That has happened to so many companies - Tweeter, Circuit City, Radio
Shack... it almost happened to Best Buy and could still happen to old chains
like J.C. Pennys, Sears and K-Mart.
Companies which don't keep up with the rest of the world fail eventually.

Unless they are public utilities with a profit guaranteed by the public
service commission.

--
Rick C

Viewed the eclipse at Wintercrest Farms,
on the centerline of totality since 1998

Ralph Mowery

2017-12-24 14:16:45 UTC

Post by Jerry Stuckle
That has happened to so many companies - Tweeter, Circuit City, Radio
Shack... it almost happened to Best Buy and could still happen to old chains
like J.C. Pennys, Sears and K-Mart.
Companies which don't keep up with the rest of the world fail eventually.

Unless they are public utilities with a profit guaranteed by the public
service commission.

Even a public utility is no guarentee.

California Power and LIght (think that is the name, or close) went
under. I don't know all the details about it but I do know I lost about
$ 2000 worth of stock that I had invested in them. The company
continued to produce poewr,but the owners (stock holders) lost
everything.

rickman

2017-12-24 04:17:53 UTC

They don't care if you have service or not. There will always be companies
with many hard lines to pay their bills.

Post by Ralph Mowery
The phone companies have been around for many years and have a mind set.
If they do not change it, they will be out of business.

Ain't gonna happen.

Post by Ralph Mowery
Some are trying
to get into the internet business. In a town near me the town put in
fiber optic cable trying to make money. The local cable company boosted
the rates of down load speed to keep the people on them. Not too long
ago the lowest speed was 25, then went to 100, and is now at 200. I am
getting about 230 on most speed tests now. Not that that much speed is
needed in many cases, but it sure beats the DSL from the phone companies
also.

230 what? 230 Mbps would be insanely fast and 230 kbps is insanely slow. I
have around 7 Mbps peak and I'm happy with that. I can watch movies all day
long and do anything I need. It's been a while since I've tried to download
the GB of so it takes for the latest copy of FPGA development tools.

--
Rick C

Viewed the eclipse at Wintercrest Farms,
on the centerline of totality since 1998

J. Clarke

2017-12-24 04:46:20 UTC

They don't care if you have service or not. There will always be companies
with many hard lines to pay their bills.

Post by Ralph Mowery
The phone companies have been around for many years and have a mind set.
If they do not change it, they will be out of business.

Ain't gonna happen.

I have 300 MB/sec down and 50 up. Some folks have gigabit. This is
not your father's Internet.

rickman

2017-12-24 06:01:32 UTC

Post by J. Clarke

They don't care if you have service or not. There will always be companies
with many hard lines to pay their bills.

Post by Ralph Mowery
The phone companies have been around for many years and have a mind set.
If they do not change it, they will be out of business.

Ain't gonna happen.

I have 300 MB/sec down and 50 up. Some folks have gigabit. This is
not your father's Internet.

Where are you?

--
Rick C

Viewed the eclipse at Wintercrest Farms,
on the centerline of totality since 1998

J. Clarke

2017-12-24 06:39:26 UTC

They don't care if you have service or not. There will always be companies
with many hard lines to pay their bills.

Post by Ralph Mowery
The phone companies have been around for many years and have a mind set.
If they do not change it, they will be out of business.

Ain't gonna happen.

I have 300 MB/sec down and 50 up. Some folks have gigabit. This is
not your father's Internet.

Where are you?

Connecticut, near the MA border, north of Hartford.

rickman

2017-12-24 08:01:55 UTC

They don't care if you have service or not. There will always be companies
with many hard lines to pay their bills.

Post by Ralph Mowery
The phone companies have been around for many years and have a mind set.
If they do not change it, they will be out of business.

Ain't gonna happen.

I have 300 MB/sec down and 50 up. Some folks have gigabit. This is
not your father's Internet.

Where are you?

Connecticut, near the MA border, north of Hartford.

I guess you don't have to wait long for web pages to load. Some pages with
a lot of "fluff" content (video, images, overlays) take a bit to load here.
It never occurred to me it was download time vs. just browser time. Do you
see the same things?

--
Rick C

Viewed the eclipse at Wintercrest Farms,
on the centerline of totality since 1998

J. Clarke

2017-12-24 15:12:57 UTC

They don't care if you have service or not. There will always be companies
with many hard lines to pay their bills.

Post by Ralph Mowery
The phone companies have been around for many years and have a mind set.
If they do not change it, they will be out of business.

Ain't gonna happen.

I have 300 MB/sec down and 50 up. Some folks have gigabit. This is
not your father's Internet.

Where are you?

Connecticut, near the MA border, north of Hartford.

The big bottleneck right now seems to be DNS lookup time.

Ahem A Rivet's Shot

2017-12-24 06:45:58 UTC

On Sat, 23 Dec 2017 23:17:53 -0500

Post by rickman
230 what? 230 Mbps would be insanely fast and 230 kbps is insanely
slow. I have around 7 Mbps peak and I'm happy with that. I can watch

Wow! Even on the rural west coast of Ireland I get 70Mbps fixed
wireless, in the nearest town gigabit is on offer but the fibres don't get
out here.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/

rickman

2017-12-24 08:05:07 UTC

Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
On Sat, 23 Dec 2017 23:17:53 -0500

Post by rickman
230 what? 230 Mbps would be insanely fast and 230 kbps is insanely
slow. I have around 7 Mbps peak and I'm happy with that. I can watch

Wow! Even on the rural west coast of Ireland I get 70Mbps fixed
wireless, in the nearest town gigabit is on offer but the fibres don't get
out here.

I'm in the middle of no and where. There's no cable. I was lucky enough to
get a wireless provider who doesn't sell a cell phone like plan with data
caps, etc. The PC software says I use around 60 GB a month which would be a
major extra charge with most wireless providers.

--
Rick C

Viewed the eclipse at Wintercrest Farms,
on the centerline of totality since 1998

Ralph Mowery

2017-12-24 14:29:46 UTC

Post by rickman
230 what? 230 Mbps would be insanely fast and 230 kbps is insanely slow. I
have around 7 Mbps peak and I'm happy with that. I can watch movies all day
long and do anything I need. It's been a while since I've tried to download
the GB of so it takes for the latest copy of FPGA development tools.

I just checked at http://www.speedtest.net/ and it is 236 Mbps down and
11.9 Mbps up.

That is just the starting speed here. It is in and around a small town
in North Carolina. About a year ago it was 25 Mbps downlink for the
basic rate. Now they are advertising 100 Mbps as the starting speed on
the web site,but a television commercial was stating 200 Mbps as the
basic speed for a larger town about 20 miles away.

I think much of the speed hold up now is not on this end, but how fast
the sites on the internet can get their data uploaded to the internet.

I don't download that many large files, but downloaded a copy of
Microsoft Office 16 or 2016 or something like that to a laptop that was
connected wireless at my house at 65 Mbps. Took almost no time. I
remember trying to use the phone modems at 14.4K baud or whatever and
downloading just a 1 or 2 megabit file and it taking around an hour.

John Levine

2017-12-24 04:15:06 UTC

Post by rickman
You seem to fail to understand how "the phone company" operates. They have
capital investment. A regulatory board allows them a certain profit based
on that capital investment. If they make too little profit they can request
rate changes of the regulatory board. TPC doesn't lose money.

That was called rate of return regulation. In the US, only little
rural telcos still do that. Big phone companies have negotiated price
caps instead, which give them a new incentive to invest as little as
possible in the regulated network.

For the most part, mobile phone rates aren't regulated at all.

--
Regards,
John Levine, ***@iecc.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly

rickman

2017-12-24 04:30:56 UTC

Post by John Levine

That was called rate of return regulation. In the US, only little
rural telcos still do that. Big phone companies have negotiated price
caps instead, which give them a new incentive to invest as little as
possible in the regulated network.
For the most part, mobile phone rates aren't regulated at all.

You are confused. The cell phone companies are in a different business.
Verizon may own a public telephone company, but most of the US has public
phone companies owned by someone else. The phone companies providing
landline phone service are still regulated entities regardless of who owns
what.

--
Rick C

Viewed the eclipse at Wintercrest Farms,
on the centerline of totality since 1998

John Levine

2017-12-24 05:02:26 UTC

Post by John Levine
That was called rate of return regulation. In the US, only little
rural telcos still do that. Big phone companies have negotiated price
caps instead, which give them a new incentive to invest as little as
possible in the regulated network.
For the most part, mobile phone rates aren't regulated at all.

Yes, they're regulated, but most of them are under price caps, not
rate of return. So long as they don't exceed the price caps, the
regulators don't care what their capital investment or profit is.

--
Regards,
John Levine, ***@iecc.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly

J. Clarke

2017-12-23 22:24:53 UTC

On Sat, 23 Dec 2017 15:06:37 -0500, Ralph Mowery

Post by Gene Wirchenko
On Fri, 22 Dec 2017 15:39:08 -0600, Charles Richmond
[snip]

The "phone company" is usually also the ISP in the modern world. I
don't think they really care that much about land-line calls anymore.

Jerry Stuckle

2017-12-24 02:10:37 UTC

Post by Gene Wirchenko
On Fri, 22 Dec 2017 15:39:08 -0600, Charles Richmond
[snip]

The phone company has no incentive to make this work better for users.
Their profits are regulated and they have no competition. I have a
place in a very rural area and when I first bought it computers used
dial up. I got very lucky and there was a local exchange that was not
quite as local as the others so I could reach a provider. Otherwise it
would have been a non-long distance toll call. For many others on the
other side of the lake it was a toll call. It's still that way some 30
years later. TPC has no incentive to increase the non-toll region even
though it costs them nothing in equipment which was upgraded decades
ago. They just have to change their billing.

You still pay for long distance? We've had unlimited (domestic) long
distance on our land lines for years. And that was long before Verizon
had competition.

Now they've changed us to fiber - no more POTS line; rather it's VOIP.
Works fine (better than the old copper) but the battery dies after about
5-8 hours of power outage, depending on how much we use it.

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
***@attglobal.net
==================

rickman

2017-12-24 03:25:38 UTC

Post by Gene Wirchenko
On Fri, 22 Dec 2017 15:39:08 -0600, Charles Richmond
[snip]

The phone company has no incentive to make this work better for users.
Their profits are regulated and they have no competition. I have a place
in a very rural area and when I first bought it computers used dial up. I
got very lucky and there was a local exchange that was not quite as local
as the others so I could reach a provider. Otherwise it would have been a
non-long distance toll call. For many others on the other side of the
lake it was a toll call. It's still that way some 30 years later. TPC
has no incentive to increase the non-toll region even though it costs them
nothing in equipment which was upgraded decades ago. They just have to
change their billing.

You still pay for long distance? We've had unlimited (domestic) long
distance on our land lines for years. And that was long before Verizon had
competition.
Now they've changed us to fiber - no more POTS line; rather it's VOIP. Works
fine (better than the old copper) but the battery dies after about 5-8 hours
of power outage, depending on how much we use it.

If you have "unlimited" long distance, you are paying for it. I have a land
line still but have no long distance. I pay $15 a month which is basically
to keep the business number until I decide to do something with it like
VOIP. I was looking at Google Voice the other day but I digress... You are
most likely paying some $30 or $40 a month to get your "unlimited" long
distance. A service that comes with my cell where voice calls are unmetered.

Funny, it was the over charging for long distance that prompted competition
in the market and led to the breakup of Bell Telephone. Now long distance
is so cheap they practically give it away.

--
Rick C

Viewed the eclipse at Wintercrest Farms,
on the centerline of totality since 1998

Jerry Stuckle

2017-12-24 04:06:26 UTC

Post by Gene Wirchenko
On Fri, 22 Dec 2017 15:39:08 -0600, Charles Richmond
[snip]

The phone company has no incentive to make this work better for users.
Their profits are regulated and they have no competition. I have a
place
in a very rural area and when I first bought it computers used dial
up. I
got very lucky and there was a local exchange that was not quite as local
as the others so I could reach a provider. Otherwise it would have
been a
non-long distance toll call. For many others on the other side of the
lake it was a toll call. It's still that way some 30 years later. TPC
has no incentive to increase the non-toll region even though it costs them
nothing in equipment which was upgraded decades ago. They just have to
change their billing.

You still pay for long distance? We've had unlimited (domestic) long
distance on our land lines for years. And that was long before
Verizon had
competition.
Now they've changed us to fiber - no more POTS line; rather it's VOIP. Works
fine (better than the old copper) but the battery dies after about 5-8 hours
of power outage, depending on how much we use it.

If you have "unlimited" long distance, you are paying for it. I have a
land line still but have no long distance. I pay $15 a month which is
basically to keep the business number until I decide to do something
with it like VOIP. I was looking at Google Voice the other day but I
digress... You are most likely paying some $30 or $40 a month to get
your "unlimited" long distance. A service that comes with my cell where
voice calls are unmetered.
Funny, it was the over charging for long distance that prompted
competition in the market and led to the breakup of Bell Telephone. Now
long distance is so cheap they practically give it away.

Not significantly. It's running less than $60 for two lines. But that
is actually less then when we had POTS lines and were paying for long
distance. But I think it's still too expensive.

My business lines are still POTS and much more expensive (as you would
expect) - but they also don't have unlimited long distance. But Verizon
is going to force me to go VOIP on those lines, soon, also.

The difference is the copper in our neighborhood is over 50 years old
and having a lot of problems. Rather than replace the cable, Verizon
installed fiber and now they run everything - phone, tv and internet -
over the one fiber instead of twisted pairs and multiple coaxes.

Plus we have more TV channels available than we had with coax.

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry, AI0K
***@attglobal.net
==================

Ralph Mowery

2017-12-23 20:01:27 UTC

In article <***@4ax.com>, ***@telus.net
says...

Post by Gene Wirchenko
On Fri, 22 Dec 2017 15:39:08 -0600, Charles Richmond
[snip]

In the 1980's I knew 2 brothers that lived next to each other. The
houses were seperated by a small field maybe 100 yards wide. They were
long distance from each other by the phone companies. Each one had a
different phone company.

Where I am at now I can not get ATT as its service starts about 1/4 of a
mile or less from me. I am on another phone company, or was before I
switched over to the internet phone. That was a very good thing for me.
I get free long distance, but best of all they block most robot calls.
The phone rings once and quits. The number is on the caller ID box and
if it really is something I want, I can dial them back. Also it is easy
to go on the internet and tell the phone company I want to block a
number. I don't do it, but a friend does, you can have the home phone
number send it to your cell phone after a few rings.

Peter Flass

2017-12-23 20:51:31 UTC

Post by Ralph Mowery
says...

Post by Gene Wirchenko
On Fri, 22 Dec 2017 15:39:08 -0600, Charles Richmond
[snip]

In the 1980's I knew 2 brothers that lived next to each other. The
houses were seperated by a small field maybe 100 yards wide. They were
long distance from each other by the phone companies. Each one had a
different phone company.
Where I am at now I can not get ATT as its service starts about 1/4 of a
mile or less from me. I am on another phone company, or was before I
switched over to the internet phone. That was a very good thing for me.
I get free long distance, but best of all they block most robot calls.
The phone rings once and quits. The number is on the caller ID box and
if it really is something I want, I can dial them back. Also it is easy
to go on the internet and tell the phone company I want to block a
number. I don't do it, but a friend does, you can have the home phone
number send it to your cell phone after a few rings.

Our electric is like this. Most of our development is National Grid and our
street and one other are NYSEG. Some times this is good, but sometimes
we're out and the other streets aren't.

--
Pete

Jerry Stuckle

2017-12-24 02:13:31 UTC

Post by Ralph Mowery
says...

Post by Gene Wirchenko
On Fri, 22 Dec 2017 15:39:08 -0600, Charles Richmond
[snip]

In the 1980's I knew 2 brothers that lived next to each other. The
houses were seperated by a small field maybe 100 yards wide. They were
long distance from each other by the phone companies. Each one had a
different phone company.
Where I am at now I can not get ATT as its service starts about 1/4 of a
mile or less from me. I am on another phone company, or was before I
switched over to the internet phone. That was a very good thing for me.
I get free long distance, but best of all they block most robot calls.
The phone rings once and quits. The number is on the caller ID box and
if it really is something I want, I can dial them back. Also it is easy
to go on the internet and tell the phone company I want to block a
number. I don't do it, but a friend does, you can have the home phone
number send it to your cell phone after a few rings.

Do you mind if I ask which VOIP company you're using (reply by email if
you wish). I'm considering switching both my home and business numbers
to another company. Verizon has gone VOIP but they're expensive (and
have fewer features).

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
***@attglobal.net
==================

Ralph Mowery

2017-12-24 03:41:36 UTC

Post by Jerry Stuckle
Do you mind if I ask which VOIP company you're using (reply by email if
you wish). I'm considering switching both my home and business numbers
to another company. Verizon has gone VOIP but they're expensive (and
have fewer features).

The company is/was Time Warner Cable that was bought or merged with
Spectrum. I only had the internet before the merge and it was about $
60 and the land line phone with another company was about $ 40 or $ 45
or just the basic service. No caller ID and 10 cents a minuit for long
distance.

By bundling the internet and phone I am paying about $ 69 per month for
both services and that includes a surcharge for the wifi modem and
probably because I wanted to keep Earthlink as the ISP instead of going
with them which I think is Roadrunner.

https://www.spectrum.com/home-phone.html

They advertise $ 29.99 each for some cable TV, phone , and internet if
you bundle them together. There is no contract or anyting. Not sure
how long they will hold that price as it has only been a few months.
Did not want the TV as using Direct TV and the wife wanted to keep it.

Only drawback I can think of now is if the cable line goes out I have to
use a cell phone to call them.

Jerry Stuckle

2017-12-24 04:10:44 UTC

The company is/was Time Warner Cable that was bought or merged with
Spectrum. I only had the internet before the merge and it was about $
60 and the land line phone with another company was about $ 40 or $ 45
or just the basic service. No caller ID and 10 cents a minuit for long
distance.
By bundling the internet and phone I am paying about $ 69 per month for
both services and that includes a surcharge for the wifi modem and
probably because I wanted to keep Earthlink as the ISP instead of going
with them which I think is Roadrunner.
https://www.spectrum.com/home-phone.html
They advertise $ 29.99 each for some cable TV, phone , and internet if
you bundle them together. There is no contract or anyting. Not sure
how long they will hold that price as it has only been a few months.
Did not want the TV as using Direct TV and the wife wanted to keep it.
Only drawback I can think of now is if the cable line goes out I have to
use a cell phone to call them.

Ah, OK. I thought you had gone with one of the VOIP companies. We
don't have Spectrum here; there are some places on the other side of the
river in Virginia with them, but all we have available are Verizon and
XFinity. I think Verizon is the lesser of the two evils :)

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry, AI0K
***@attglobal.net
==================

J. Clarke

2017-12-24 04:49:05 UTC

On Sat, 23 Dec 2017 23:10:44 -0500, Jerry Stuckle

The company is/was Time Warner Cable that was bought or merged with
Spectrum. I only had the internet before the merge and it was about $
60 and the land line phone with another company was about $ 40 or $ 45
or just the basic service. No caller ID and 10 cents a minuit for long
distance.
By bundling the internet and phone I am paying about $ 69 per month for
both services and that includes a surcharge for the wifi modem and
probably because I wanted to keep Earthlink as the ISP instead of going
with them which I think is Roadrunner.
https://www.spectrum.com/home-phone.html
They advertise $ 29.99 each for some cable TV, phone , and internet if
you bundle them together. There is no contract or anyting. Not sure
how long they will hold that price as it has only been a few months.
Did not want the TV as using Direct TV and the wife wanted to keep it.
Only drawback I can think of now is if the cable line goes out I have to
use a cell phone to call them.

You know nothing compels you to get your phone from your internet
provider. Microsoft provides unlimited worldwide service for
$14.99/month, plus $25 every three if you want a number that people
can call. Google has something similar.

Ahem A Rivet's Shot

2017-12-24 05:31:27 UTC

On Sat, 23 Dec 2017 23:49:05 -0500

Post by J. Clarke
You know nothing compels you to get your phone from your internet
provider. Microsoft provides unlimited worldwide service for
$14.99/month, plus $25 every three if you want a number that people
can call. Google has something similar.

That is an expensive option unless you make a *lot* of calls, there
are providers where you pay for all calls but the rate to most places is
under a cent per minute.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/

Jerry Stuckle

2017-12-24 15:42:01 UTC

Post by J. Clarke
On Sat, 23 Dec 2017 23:10:44 -0500, Jerry Stuckle

The company is/was Time Warner Cable that was bought or merged with
Spectrum. I only had the internet before the merge and it was about $
60 and the land line phone with another company was about $ 40 or $ 45
or just the basic service. No caller ID and 10 cents a minuit for long
distance.
By bundling the internet and phone I am paying about $ 69 per month for
both services and that includes a surcharge for the wifi modem and
probably because I wanted to keep Earthlink as the ISP instead of going
with them which I think is Roadrunner.
https://www.spectrum.com/home-phone.html
They advertise $ 29.99 each for some cable TV, phone , and internet if
you bundle them together. There is no contract or anyting. Not sure
how long they will hold that price as it has only been a few months.
Did not want the TV as using Direct TV and the wife wanted to keep it.
Only drawback I can think of now is if the cable line goes out I have to
use a cell phone to call them.

I wouldn't get phone service from Microsoft if it were the last company
on earth. They're about the only company I consider worse than XFinity
in that respect. I don't want a phone that crashes three times a day.

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
***@attglobal.net
==================

J. Clarke

2017-12-24 16:57:42 UTC

On Sun, 24 Dec 2017 10:42:01 -0500, Jerry Stuckle

Post by J. Clarke
On Sat, 23 Dec 2017 23:10:44 -0500, Jerry Stuckle

The company is/was Time Warner Cable that was bought or merged with
Spectrum. I only had the internet before the merge and it was about $
60 and the land line phone with another company was about $ 40 or $ 45
or just the basic service. No caller ID and 10 cents a minuit for long
distance.
By bundling the internet and phone I am paying about $ 69 per month for
both services and that includes a surcharge for the wifi modem and
probably because I wanted to keep Earthlink as the ISP instead of going
with them which I think is Roadrunner.
https://www.spectrum.com/home-phone.html
They advertise $ 29.99 each for some cable TV, phone , and internet if
you bundle them together. There is no contract or anyting. Not sure
how long they will hold that price as it has only been a few months.
Did not want the TV as using Direct TV and the wife wanted to keep it.
Only drawback I can think of now is if the cable line goes out I have to
use a cell phone to call them.

I don't recall Skype _ever_ crashing. This "crashes three times a
day" business from people who last used Windows 30 years ago is
getting boring.

Jerry Stuckle

2017-12-24 20:41:30 UTC

Post by J. Clarke
On Sun, 24 Dec 2017 10:42:01 -0500, Jerry Stuckle

Post by J. Clarke
On Sat, 23 Dec 2017 23:10:44 -0500, Jerry Stuckle

The company is/was Time Warner Cable that was bought or merged with
Spectrum. I only had the internet before the merge and it was about $
60 and the land line phone with another company was about $ 40 or $ 45
or just the basic service. No caller ID and 10 cents a minuit for long
distance.
By bundling the internet and phone I am paying about $ 69 per month for
both services and that includes a surcharge for the wifi modem and
probably because I wanted to keep Earthlink as the ISP instead of going
with them which I think is Roadrunner.
https://www.spectrum.com/home-phone.html
They advertise $ 29.99 each for some cable TV, phone , and internet if
you bundle them together. There is no contract or anyting. Not sure
how long they will hold that price as it has only been a few months.
Did not want the TV as using Direct TV and the wife wanted to keep it.
Only drawback I can think of now is if the cable line goes out I have to
use a cell phone to call them.

I don't recall Skype _ever_ crashing. This "crashes three times a
day" business from people who last used Windows 30 years ago is
getting boring.

Even my Windows 7 Professional crashes on a semi-regular basis - at
least once or twice a week. Applications crash for no reason even more
often. But my Linux system on the same machine never crashes.

And yes, I have had Skype crash enough times I don't use it any more -
and haven't fore at least 3-4 years. Maybe it's better now but I don't
trust it.

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
***@attglobal.net
==================

Jimbo ...

2017-12-23 19:11:05 UTC

Post by m***@mail.com

Post by Stephen Thomas Cole
Gareth's Downstairs Computer

How do you say "Not guilty" in Welsh, G? You might want to practice that
one, just in case.

yn ddieuog

You'll need to do better than that... I don't have my Enigma machine
handy!!! ;-)

A few years ago, I stoppped for a couple of days at a farmhouse near
Carmarten(sp) . Nice people, most Welsh people are. I asked the
housewife how she did in Welsh.
"I miss some nuances, of course, I am from North Wales, only been
living here for fifty years."

In '84 we were on a train to new york from Stamford and the conductor
pinned our accent as Paisley area...turned out he used to conduct on the bus
between paisley and johnstone before he emigrated ....

Andreas Eder

2017-12-24 12:15:43 UTC